Goth or Not: the Question of Marilyn Manson

Many, many faithful readers have sent missives taking the Lady of the Manners to task for her seeming dismissive air toward a current musical icon; “Why are you so down on him?” these faithful readers cry. “Here, read this interview with him! He seems Goth, why do you keep saying he isn’t?!” In light of these touching questions, the Lady of the Manners decided she had better take a stand and answer the question once and for all.

Marilyn Manson’s *MUSIC* is not Goth. It would more properly be categorized as metal. Fun concerts, full of over the top spectacle, but *not* Goth.

Now, what about Mr. Manson himself? That is the concern some faithful readers seem to have. As to that, well, the Lady of the Manners doesn’t have a definitive answer, nor would she claim to. However, based on the interviews with Mr. Manson that the Lady of the Manners has read, the evidence does seem to mount up. He has a striking, decadent, and dark personal style. He’s espoused an interest in decaying and (again) decadent ideas and themes, and prefers to present a highly stylized image whenever he is in the public eye. And, according to interviews with his friends and romantic partners, he is a perfect gentleman; courteous, considerate, and well-mannered. All of which means, in the Lady of the Manners’ book is that, yes, Wednesday and Pugsley, Marilyn Manson IS a Goth.

(The Lady of the Manners is sure that Mr. Manson has been waiting with bated breath for the Lady of the Manners’ validation of his gothness. Sure of it, she tells you, and don’t you try to convince her differently.)

Now, the thing that amuses the Lady of the Manners the most about this whole topic is the fact that the Lady of the Manners is considered an arbitrator of gothness by some, while other people are rather dismissive and suspicious of the Lady of the Manners’ whole existence. In fact, one posting board embroiled themselves in a heated discussion/ flame war about the Lady of the Manners’ “Friends don’t let friends dress like The Crow” column. The posting board was for enthusiasts of The Crow; many of them took affront at the Lady of the Manners’ statement that dressing like The Crow is just the teensiest bit of a cliché in the Goth scene (apparently, many of them didn’t read the part of the column that says that if that’s what truly makes you happy, then go right ahead and do it). Not only did some of them get a wee bit indignant about the whole thing, but started casting aspersions on the Lady of the Manners’ gothic credibility. (The Lady of the Manners’ favorite comment about that was someone who was *convinced* that the Lady of the Manners was actually a balding, middle-aged man. The Lady of the Manners laughed and laughed and laughed at that, then went and had a cup of tea.) Continue reading →

Posted in General | Leave a comment

That Old-Time Religion

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to another month’s worth of Gothic Charm School. This month, the Lady of the Manners is going to hold forth about a topic that she really didn’t think she’d ever need to; a topic that is such a cliché that the Lady of the Manners just assumed everyone knew what was the truth behind it. The topic? That there aren’t any particular religious beliefs you need to hold to be a Goth. No, really. There aren’t. The Lady of the Manners isn’t joking.

The Gothic subculture is just that, a subculture, with no religious requirements. Sure, some aspects of the Gothic subculture are laden with occult trappings (candles, incense, strange images, odd old books, ghost stories, tarot cards), but that doesn’t mean that to be a Real Goth , one must check the “Other” box for religion and list “Spooooooky.” Continue reading →

Posted in Stuff & Oddments | Leave a comment

Labels Really Aren’t Just For Clothes

Helllllooooo Faithful Readers, and welcome back to a shiny new installment of Gothic Charm School, which is going to start off with a heartfelt apology from the Lady of the Manners for her hermit-like state lo these many months. The Lady of the Manners never meant to take quite that long of a break from haranguing ”” er, from answering the various burning questions that many of you have sent to her, truly she didn’t. But one day just turned into another until the Lady of the Manners looked at the calendar and was shocked to discover that it had somehow become 2004.

So! What burning issue has roused the Lady of the Manners from her months-long seclusion? Why, an issue that no one has actually come out and asked for advice about, but needs addressing none the less. You see, there’s a certain type of mail the Lady of the Manners seems to get quite a bit of. There are swarms and swarms of readers out there who are compelled to write to the Lady of the Manners to complain about being labeled Goth; they don’t want to be labeled, labels are restrictive and so limiting! Sure, they may wear all black, be interested in graveyards, gargoyles, horror fiction, vampires, or just prefer a darker aesthetic then most people, but they refuse to be labeled, and they’re terribly, terribly resentful when people try and apply a label to them. There’s So! Much! More! to their personalities and lives than can be encompassed by a (gasp, shudder of revulsion) label. Continue reading →

Posted in Stuff & Oddments | Leave a comment

Too Old To Be Goth, Revisited

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to your monthly peek into the Lady of the Manners’ brain. This month, Gothic Charm School is going to re-visit a topic from Years Gone Past. The Lady of the Manners has been receiving ”¦ well, not quite a flurry, but a light dusting of mail from new Faithful Readers who write earnest and charming letters about how they never considered themselves Goth, but they wear all black (or dark jewel tones), they like to read horror and fantasy fiction, they like bats, they collect gargoyles ”¦

Thankfully, this batch doesn’t ask the Lady of the Manners to validate their gothness, or complain that whatever online test they took doesn’t think they’re Goth. No, what is troubling these poor readers is very simple: they think they’re too old to start calling themselves Goth. Continue reading →

Posted in Growing Pains | Leave a comment

Raising A Goth

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to another fun-filled Gothic Charm School column. (The Lady of the Manners certainly hopes it’s fun-filled for you Faithful Readers, because she has fun writing them.)

Recently, the Lady of the Manners has been getting a lot of mail from parents; encouraging mail. Mail that asks questions like “How can I as a parent support him in the Goth life, without seeming like I’m pretending to be “cool”, or fake? Should I just let him experiment with it?” The Lady of the Manners is thrilled that parents are reading her columns and sending her mail, which naturally leads to the Lady of the Manners writing a column just for them. But before she starts holding forth about “So you’re the parent of a fledgling Goth?”, there’s one eensy other thing she has to address ”¦ Continue reading →

Posted in Growing Pains | Leave a comment

“Not a Goth,” Revisited

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to another fun-filled lesson at Gothic Charm School. The Lady of the Manners has been getting quite the flurry of correspondence lately, what with Gothic.net inviting everyone inside the shop (as it were) and the Lady of the Manners’ archive site being selected as a Yahoo! Pick of the Week; the Lady of the Manners is quite spoiled for choice in terms of subjects to Hold Forth about, bless your spooky little hearts.

Remember, just a few months ago, when the Lady of the Manners addressed the concerns of a young lady who insisted she wasn’t a Goth (anymore), but kept being referred to as one? This month, the Lady of the Manners looks at two different sides of the Not A Goth dilemma: So You Want to be a Goth but Aren’t One, and My Friends are Goths, but I’m Not. Continue reading →

Posted in Stuff & Oddments | Leave a comment

On Being Mean

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to yet another month of the Lady of the Manners shaking her lace-gloved fist and ranting (in a ladylike manner, of course). Now lets see ”¦ last month, the Lady of the Manners mentioned a topic she’d been thinking about. It’s a topic that she even covered in brief a few months ago, saying something like “The Internet is not Real Life, but you still should be nice to the people you meet there”. Well, yes. Apparently the ”˜be nice’ part of the message didn’t reach some people or make as much as of an impact as the Lady of the Manners had hoped for, so she’s going to indulge herself with an ENTIRE COLUMN about why being rude, unkind, or inflammatory towards people you meet online Should Not Be Done. Continue reading →

Posted in Being Social | Leave a comment

“Not a Goth”

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to another dizzying month of Gothic Charm School. This month’s topic is a puzzle, one that the Lady of the Manners has had to think a long while about, because she kept having so many different answers to the question. One of you dear Faithful Readers wrote in with an earnest quandary, but one without an easy, off-the-lace-cuff answer. The poor dear even asked to not have her email address and name used, because she’s worried about facing ridicule from people. What has her all in a flutter? Funny you should ask that ”¦ Continue reading →

Posted in Stuff & Oddments | Leave a comment

Meeting New People

Hello Faithful Readers, and welcome to another month of etiquette fun at Gothic Charm School. Now, what was it the Lady of the Manners was going to natter on about this time? That’s right, surviving the holiday season. Oh well, so much for that! Instead, the Lady of the Manners is going to answer a heartfelt plea from a reader, one asking for advice on a very important subject.

Dear Gothic Charm School,

I’ve recently moved into the San Diego area and I don’t know anyone here. How does one go about meeting new gothy-types? I realize the most obvious answer is clubs, but really, I wouldn’t know the best or most polite way to start a conversation there. Is there a “best” way? I figure if anyone would know, it would be you.

Would posting on the local Mailing List be a good idea? I’m a little apprehensive about doing that because everyone on the list here seems to be ranting and in-fighting, I really don’t want to get involved in all of that. It would just be nice to hang out with someone with similar interests here. I don’t go to school and I don’t work in an environment where I meet new people. I just feel kind of stuck.

Thank you in advance for any help/advice/ideas you can offer me. And again, I love reading your columns, they’re really great.

Sincerely,
Joseph

Continue reading →

Posted in Being Social | Leave a comment

Goths and School

Hello, Faithful Readers, and welcome to the long-promised “Goths and School” column. Yes, the Lady of the Manners is following through on what she promised last month, no more wild tangents about weddings or other social events.

So. Right. School. Hmmm. Continue reading →

Posted in Growing Pains | Leave a comment